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October 23, 2007
Toyota Tundra Reliability Issues
By David
AKA Highspeedhijinks
Building a truck that can take the punishment of American truck buyers can be hard. Companies like Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have been doing it for close to 100 years and are still refining the image of the perfect truck with each new generation they unveil. Toyota, on the other hand, is new to the big-truck market, and despite initially sky-high consumer confidence and lavish praise from the automotive media, design flaws in the full-size Tundra pickup have begun to surface. Yesterday Auto blog reported on the most recent issues with the truck, which include tailgates that break under the strain of normal use, and a "rumble strip" feel upon acceleration thanks to a faulty torque converter. It’s not just a select few trucks either. This article at pickuptrucks.com reveals what could be a larger problem for Toyota: buyer’s remorse. The Tundra has even slipped off the Consumer Reports recommended list due to what could be more new-model jitters. No company is perfect, but with so much money riding on this truck, I’m sure Toyota’s gonna feel this one.
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Paul
Jan 4, 2009 at 2:10 pm
It seems this page is more about Toyota vs the big three. Seeing the dates of most of the posts it is clear that most have not had this truck long enough to comment accurately on the reliability of the vehicle. I purchased this truck in Feb. 2007 and I currently have 61000km on the unit. It is an SR5 4X4 with the 5.7 Liter V8. I have owned three previous Toyotas (89 4Runner, 97 Corolla, 2000 4 Runner). Over the years it seems to me Toyota has lost the reliability that I once could brag about. This is the most unreliable vehicle that I have ever owned. In my opinion this is due to the changes that Toyota are making in the design of their vehicles. There is one word that can sum up most of the problems, “sensors”. Thus far, I have lost an ABS sensor (These sensors on the 07 Tundra not only control the ABS, they control the VSC, traction control, and 4 wheel drive) which I was told was worn out due to over use. This happened at about 30000km. The power steering pressure sensor gave out the first time the outside temperature hit -35 degrees Celcius. I am happy to say Toyota re-designed this part, however I feel this clearly shows the vehicle was not designed for cold climates (I suspect the icy road conditions may have contributed to the ABS sensor being overused as well. The ABS sensor activates the traction control and the VSC if tire spin or slippage is experienced). The swaybar bushings had to be replaced at about 55000km (unheard of in the previous Toyotas that I have owned). At about 60500km the ABS sensor crapped out again. Factor in it costs about $700 to get one of these replaced, I cant see how the cost of ownership for this vehicle is going to be anything but more expensive than any other vehicle I have owned. Also, the tire pressure sensors have given out. Tire pressure sensor? What is the point? I have been told by a Toyota service repersentative that all these sensors are very convenient. The tire pressure sensors for instance lets you know when you have a leak in a tire. You never have to worry about driving on the rim. This s the first vehicle have owned that have had these sensors. I have had several flats in my other vehicles and have never driven on a rim. In my opinion, I don’t feel that having to take the truck to the Toyota dealership to get these useless sensors replaced all that convenient.
Increasing the cost further for me, is that Toyota, in my opinion, has tried to make it impossible for me to do minor maintenance tasks on the vehicle myself. This means that I now have to take the truck to a Toyota dealership to get them to do the things I used to be able to do in my driveway for a fraction of the cost, or I could get done in my local garage. Changing the oil and flushing the transmission are the two that come to mind. You need a “special wrench” to get the oil filter out and you need to hook the truck up to a computer to tell you how much fluid is in the transmission. I did manage to get an oil filter wrench after I went to the dealership and argued with the Service Manager. After getting the wrench I realized that it is not a wrench at all but an adapter that allows you to use a normal wrench to open the filter. Why would Toyota do this? In my opinion, given that the service industry is a billion dollar industry, it seems that Toyota is doing this to monopolize the service on these vehicles. In my opinion, they want you to have to give them your money as opposed to going to your local garage (Not a big deal if you live in a city where there is a Toyota dealership. I live 2.5 hours away. Given the price of fuel, this drastically increases my service costs). I have to multiply the fuel cost by two every time there is a sensor failure (Or anything else for that matter. I had to make two trips to the dealership to get the serpentine belt changed which cracked up at about 60000km). If you have read “The Toyota Way” you will know that Toyota uses, “just in time inventory”. Simply put, this means that they stock no parts and orders them based on when they are needed. To me “just in time inventory” is misleading as you don’t get the parts just in time, you get them 2-3 days after you need them. In my opinion this should be called “2-3 day too late inventory”. They do this to minimize the amount of money they have tied up in inventory. This makes Toyota’s bottom line look better at the end of the year…at my expense. This means I’m out more time and money than I would be if they actually stocked parts like the big three. In my opinion this is simply passing the buck on to the consumer…you.
I have read that Toyota plans to take this further with their new idea of “VI” in which all components, including wiring harnesses are integrated into systems. I don’t know all the details of this yet but I have a good idea of what it probably means. In my opinion this is Toyota’s way of maximizing revenue (Getting more of your money). Imagine a headlight in which the bulb has blown. You can replace the bulb for $5. Now, if the manufacture made it so that the bulb could not be replaced and you had to replace the entire headlight assembly for a cost of $200, that would mean the manufacture would take in a lot more revenue (Good for stockholders, bad for consumers). In my opinion Toyota plans to do this with as many components as possible. Therefore, when one of those unreliable ABS sensors burns out, I won’t be able to replace it for $700, I’ll have to spend more like $2000 to replace the system. Given the personal experience I have had with Toyota in the last 20 years, it is my opinion this is the next logical step.
If you think this ABS sensor problem is isolated to my truck you are mistaken. There is another individual in my hometown who has one of these trucks. He has also had to replace two of these sensors.
Maintaining the vehicle does play a big role in ensuring reliability as some previous people have written. However, I have personally seen the decrease in quality of Toyota vehicles. My 89 4Runner would not give out. I blasted through mud holes, beat the bottom of rocks, took jumps, plowed through 4-5 foot snow drifts, got it stuck in sand many times and It would not break. I was doing this with over 315000km on the odometer and I did not maintain that vehicle anywhere near what I should have. The oil was changed every 10000-15000 kms and I never even really greased the thing. Maintenance amounted to replacement of the starter and re-coring the radiator. I had to hit a deer to take the 97 Corolla off the road. 280000km and all that had to be replaced was the alternator and the starter. Oil changes and maintenance were done regularly. The 2000 4Runner was not a bad vehicle but, in my opinion, the reliability of the mechanical components could not stand up to what the 89 4Runner could. My 2007 Tundra breaks while I’m driving down the highway (Sensors quit for no apparent reason). This vehicle has never been abused and has had all of the maintenance performed by the dealership. In my opinion, Toyota’s move away from reliable mechanical components to unreliable, cheaper to produce, electrical components has turned the reliability bragging rights of Toyota owners into giggling of Ford, Chev and Dodge owners behind the back of Toyota owners. Do not allow yourselves to be laughed at as I have. Buying a Toyota Tundra is one of the worst mistakes I have ever made. I will never buy another Toyota as the only reason I have been able to get from the Toyota dealership as to why Toyota is changing this way is, “Eventually all manufactures will be doing this”.
P.S. It doesn’t matter how many times Toyota says their electronic 4X4 traction setup is a locker, it’s not. It works well when the sensors are working. However, Repeating the word locker over and over again does not make it a locker. Check out companies like Eaton, ARB, Powertrax and Ox Locker to find out the difference between open, limited-slip, positive traction and locking differentials.
SG: LEAN manufacturing is a great program. However I feel that Toyota has taken it too far. In my opinion they have leaned production costs to the point of sacrificing quality and customer service. Any business person knows if you focus too much on programs like this, you will eventually experience cracks in the foundations of your business.
OMG
Apr 13, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Have been reading some of the comments and thought I would put my own. There is a line from one of the car guides, that comes to mind. “All vehicles are built poorly, just some are worse than others.” I have yet to come across one car or truck that meets everyone’s needs or expectations. Bottom line I have owned Ford, GMC, Chevy, Dodge, Honda, Volkswagen, Pontiac, Olds, Nissan, Cadillac They all had their quirks, and their good sides. The ones that come to mind the most, or that I have deemed as a good truck/car are the ones that cost “ME” the least albeit in fuel or repairs. My 07 Tundra has 5000 miles on it, and gets better gas mileage than my 04 Dodge that it replaced. So far so good, we will see. My wife wanted an Acura TL but we could not justify the additional $14000 from the 04′ 300M she bought, which to date has cost us nothing but oil, gas, brakes in the 90,000 miles we have had it. To make comments on a vehicle (the 2007) is premature……Time will tell if the Tundra is a “Good Truck”
Anonymous
Jan 28, 2008 at 1:13 am
After being a Ford truck owner for many years I felt that I would like to try new things, BAD idea. I bought a 2005 Tundra in January of last year. shortly after buying it, it started having transmission trouble. I had the transmission replaced. About 5 or 6 months went by and I could feel the tranny start slipping again and that wasnt my only troubles, I started to hear a knock in the motor. I then traded in the tundra before any further damage was done and got a new 07 Tundra. All went well until just recently when my transfer case broke driving in the snow. Shortly after this incedent my tailgate broke while loading some wood into my truck at the local lumber yard. I will soon be returning my second Tundra and will be buying an F-150 as soon as the new 2009 F-150 model comes out.
kia
Jan 8, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Hi!!!OooH tundra.. I agree with an idea of the author and I think that the industry
will please us still with novelties. At me all over again was toyota camry now
I wish to buy KIA What model better?
jim d norton
Dec 25, 2007 at 7:29 pm
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Anonymous
Dec 24, 2007 at 5:34 am
I have had all three ( Dodge Ford GM ) Now a new 2007 Toyota Tundra Crewmax and it’s twice the vehicle with the lowest operating cost over a five year period. I agree with SG comments.
Anonymous
Dec 24, 2007 at 5:31 am
I have had all three ( Dodge Ford GM ) Now a new 2007 Toyota Tundra and it’s twice the vehicle with the lowest operating cost over a five year period.
nooner426
Dec 10, 2007 at 12:45 am
i have been a gm guy for 35 years, but am considering a change. i hear everyone complaining about foreign cars/ trucks, that are made in america. what are your thoughts about formally german-owned dodge, now canadian-owned? all their profits found the way back to foreign soil – or are we just biased against japan based companies that have north american operations? i cant keep track. my quick research shows that tundra 85% american parts, and assembled in america. 08 gmc crwe cab 1/2 ton 85% american parts and assembled in canada!! crazy huh
SG
Nov 10, 2007 at 4:38 am
Toyota quality systems are the benchmark in the manufacturing world. Don’t believe me? Do some research on LEAN manufacturing and Toyota Quality Systems and you’ll see. Their quality is superior to domestic not because we can’t build better vehicles…but that we don’t let ourselves build better vehicles. After WW2, we sent bright people to rebuild Japan. Demming was one of them and he gave the Japanese the knoweldge to analyze their systems and improve them. The US lags behind in that front, but desperately wants to catch up. Americans build Toyotas and they are more reliable than the big 3 that are built by Americans. A Toyota that is several years old has better reliability than most domestics at 2-3 years old. The big 3 do make bigger trucks…my father has had several. He babies them and they still have MAJOR issues. He’s waiting for Toyota to truly compete in the F350 world. Every new model has issues – domestic or foreign. Buy a consumer reports auto issue and you’ll see that EVEN WITH TOYOTA, HONDA, ETC. However, when I spend over 30K for something I want the ODDS and STATISTICS in my favor.
toyota
Nov 1, 2007 at 5:10 am
Hi! I too want will share the reasons in occasion of Toyota car.
The first car was toyota corolla, volume of the engine 1.5, good car, but very weak engine.
Car economy class. Car toyota camry, volume of the engine of 2.0 litres. Excellent car,
but it would be desirable even more powerfully! Now I go on car toyota Surf, the engine diesel!
That is necessary for me! 1KZ! COOL!
Lar2larson
Oct 26, 2007 at 3:35 am
James,
You refer to Toyota as an American company “Toyota is a hell of alot better then the rest of the companies in america”…Toyota is not american and never will be. Just as they were when they were building bombs during World War II, Toyota’s profits stay in Japan. A couple of plants in America doesn’t make them American. It is great to see them get what is coming to them. Even the american tree huggers are starting to see the light, check out their website.
http://www.truthabouttoyota.com
Anonymous
Oct 26, 2007 at 3:05 am
the only reason y cars are somtimes really reliable is how the owner treats it. it doesnt have to do with the brand. my friend’s dad has a 93 ford ranger with over 300k miles on it. so it doesnt matter what brand the car (or truck) is. it matters how u take care of it!
Rob
Oct 26, 2007 at 1:25 am
6 months, almost 3K miles so far, no problems on my 2007 Toyota Tundra (4.7 liter engine, 4WD, double cab SR5)…I should note that I don’t do “heavy lifting” with my Tundra-I just pull a ski boat with it and play with the 4WD once in a while to keep the gears greased.
My 2007 Toyota Tundra is my third Toyota following a flawless Tacoma (1995) and RAV4 (2004) experience. I had my Tacoma for 9 years without any mechanical/functional issues (there were a few very minor cosmetic glitches as the years went by though).
Travis Westman
Oct 25, 2007 at 5:50 am
toyota trucks have their own kinks just like any other car in the market. ford, gm and dodge all have their own kinks so move on.. next topic.
eric
Oct 24, 2007 at 4:14 pm
So everyone wants toyota to have problems, this article attacks the truck more because its from toyota. What about the guage problems every full size GM truck has huh? Ill admit that toyota needs to jump to the 1 Ton game cause that tundra is still a little vehicle for hauling.
Highspeedhijinks
Oct 24, 2007 at 1:25 pm
James: the purpose of this article is that Toyota like other companies isnt immune to new model problems. This pre-disposed notion that foriegn makes are far superior to American makes just because there foriegn is an assanign assumption. In reality cars are cars, and for the most part cars are only as good as the owners that take care of them.
RatsEatChildren
Oct 24, 2007 at 3:16 am
Hahahaha that’s what they get for trying to ruin nascar!
james
Oct 24, 2007 at 2:28 am
I think that Toyota is a hell of alot of better then the rest of the companies in america
james
Oct 24, 2007 at 2:27 am
I think that Toyota is a hell of alot of better then the rest of the companies in america
Jason B.
Oct 23, 2007 at 10:40 pm
I’ve always been a firm believer in the idea that hype is nothing more than hot air. I am kind of happy to see Toyota stumble on this one.
Detroit3
Oct 23, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Honestly Toyota should stay out of a market they aren’t capable of doing well in. Let the Detroit big three handle the full-size pickup truck market.