Chrysler and Fiat: a Modest Proposal

DJs-zj360
Oct 30, 2009 at 6:31 am

Don’t forget about the Wrangler, it still needs a V8!

donnyh18
Oct 29, 2009 at 11:51 am

According to the Wall Street Journal, which claims access to people who have seen Fiat’s plan for Chrysler, many of the recent rumors regarding current models are incorrect, and Chrysler will incorporate more Fiat Group products than expected. Vehicles planned for the US, according to the Journal article, include a replacement for the Chrysler Sebring, based on a Fiat design. The PT Cruiser, Sebring, Avenger, Compass, Caliber, and Patriot will all have their final year in 2012, with even the popular Dodge Caravan ducking out; the Chrysler Town & Country will be Chrysler’s sole minivan, according to the article, though historically the Caravan has sold better. The Nitro will also be dropped. To be kept are the Dodge Challenger and Dodge Charger.(allpar.com)

troutster52
Oct 29, 2009 at 8:05 am

No doubt that RWD traction control has brought a lot more stability to RWD in inclimate weather. BMWs and 300s and Crown Vics hold their own fine in the snow. But there is a lie that people tell each other that RWD is junk and dangerous and outdated, etc. Even if a RWD was twice as good in dirt and snow as a front wheel drive, people wouldn’t buy it. Most consumers are afraid of RWD, plain and simple. I do agree that aside from 2+2s and massive sedans, its extremely hard to find a RWD car anymore.

Rob Einaudi
Oct 29, 2009 at 7:39 am

Great comments mshayden! Ok, so the mid-size offering doesn’t have to be RWD, but it should be available in AWD like the Fusion.

MiamiMiataGroup
Oct 29, 2009 at 7:29 am

A fwd Sebring they can kill it anytime LOL they make it rwd it’s a different story. The only car I will miss is the Turbo PT Cruiser what a great sleeper, a car you can treat to SRT-4 accessories is a winner in my book, let’s not forget the hot rod Jeep, the SRT-8 Love that machine. LOL

GTwildfire
Oct 29, 2009 at 7:14 am

Oh and one more STRONG SUGGESTION for Chryslur… My boss has been waiting for Tie Rod Ends for his Charger. They were on backorder FOR SIX MONTHS.
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It took a half a year to get those parts and he has been driving while waiting.
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W-T-F! Supposedly (what he told me) this was a national thing, which means everyone with that car who needed those parts were in a holding pattern? HUH?
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So, the moral of this story for Chryslur is KEEP YOUR CUSTOMERS HAPPY OR YOU LOSE WHAT FEW YOU HAVE LEFT.
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Grrrr…. Maan stupidity really grinds my gravel…

GTwildfire
Oct 29, 2009 at 7:09 am

It all makes sense, Rob but especially ditch the stupid Liberty! Set that bad idea free! Jeep had what 17 years of Cherokees (or something like that) with a FOLLOWING, they didn’t change much, just one major refresh but did buyers care? HELL NO. The Cherokee got the whole SUV thing rolling from ’84 on. The Earth lost some of its orbit around the sun when the Cherokees were replaced by that Fisher Price wannabe Liberty. Having no common sense has done Chrysler more damage than anything else.

donnyh18
Oct 29, 2009 at 6:37 am

I read somewhere that they will unveil on November 4th a product lineup that relies heavily on Fiat vehicles, while abandoning many of the current models. I really do not know which ones that they will do away with, but it will be mostly cars.

dragorphan
Oct 29, 2009 at 3:03 am

How about we trash them all let the company fail and tell fiat to keep their junk in europe.

mshayden
Oct 28, 2009 at 10:27 pm

You have some interesing ideas Rob, but I think your plan sonds too much like “old-school Detroit”. There is too much model overlap between marques to work in a competitive dealer network where all models are sold in every dealsership. Since every auto maker in the world (even Ford) has moved to that more efficient model that rules out segmenting the dealership network, so the only effective way to compete is to rationalise the model lineup so there isn’t competition within your own models. GM clung to this model the longest and had to axe whole brands when it restructured. Fiat is only trying to continue streamlining where old-Chrysler left off.

It also looks like you’re assuming Fiat hasn’t got any replacements in mind for cancelled models. What info that has been leaked has not included what is in store. What would you propose for NEW models? Here’s how I might envision Chysler’s lineup by the end of the 5-year rescue plan:

Chrysler:

* Cordoba*
* Sebring
* 300
* Town & Country

I agree that a Sebring model should be retained, though not on the JS platform–a “stretched Caliber” isn’t refined enough to take on the BMW 3 series (needs to be Maserati-derived). I don’t think it NEEDS to be RWD–FWD with AWD option can work if need be. It would be a 4-door sedan smaller than the 300. The “Cordoba” (for lack of a better name) would be the performance 2-door luxury coupe/convertible–THAT would be good as a RWD and would go against “roadsters” like those from Audi, BMW, etc.

Dodge:

* Hornet*
* Daytona*
* Caravan (The Journey renamed)
* Challenger
* Monaco (the Charger renamed)

Plans to end both the Caliber and the Avenger would leave a gaping hole in the Dodge car lineup–it is obvious that there will be Fiat/Alfa replacements to fill the gaps. The Hornet would be a subcompact with aggressive Dodge styling based on the Fiat PuntoEvo. The Dart would be economically competitive with the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit, but a bit roomier, cooler looking and with sporter performance (remember the concept version?). The Daytona would be a Linea/MiTo replacement for the Avenger AND Caliber in sedan and possibly liftback versions. The Daytone would be in the same size class as the Sebring but NOT the same platform. I think the Challenger should remain just as it is. A 2-door Charger would be too similar to the Challenger–even if one were downsized (historically the Challenger has always been a fairly large coupe). Instead of changing design extensively, I’d simply rename the Charger to Monaco so people stop complaining about a car named Charger being a 4-door sedan. Also, since the Journey was intended to replace the short-wheelbase entry-level Caravan, why not just rename it Caravan to make it clear to people? ALSO: Good economy is important, so offer diesel options for Hornet, Daytona and Caravan (from Fiat, but also the new Chrysler diesel currently put in exported 2010 Calibers–that engine is reportedly very highly regarded).

Jeep:

* Outrider
* Patriot
* Wrangler
* Cherokee (Liberty replacement)
* Wagoneer (Grand Cherokee renamed)

It goes without saying the rude and crude but fun Wrangler should be around forever. Rumours are that the well-regarded Fiat NuovaPanda will be the basis for a new small Jeep, but it is considerably smaller than the Patriot and I doubt it could be scaled up succesfully to be considered a replacement. I’d consider it to be a new “subcompact SUV” model I dubbed the “Jeep Outrider” The last couple of years the Patriot has improved in refinement and though it started off as a mediocre in fit and finish it’s still the most reliable current Jeep model, so I agree that they should reconsider ending it (it could go up against the Ford Escape well). The Liberty is disappointing and is amongst the most unreliable new vehicles in the world. It should be given a major workover and be relaunched once again as the Cherokee. The Cherokee would be a different platform, so I’d bring back the Wagoneer name for what is now the Grand Cherokee. As for the Commanche…WHY? Jeep is the “SUV brand”. Pickup trucks not welcome! Comanche doesn’t fit the plan as it would compete with the Dakota truck. Same with Compass–this “crossover” is basically an ugly hatch/wagon that would compete with the Dodge midsize offering and even the Patriot. ALSO: Diesel engines should be offered on ALL Jeep models!

RAM Trucks:

* 500
* 1500
* 2500
* 3500
* 1500/2500/3500 Van

Ram trucks and the Sprinter vans are already highly regarded. I wouldn’t make any really significant changes, except in a couple of areas: I’m proposing a simpler number-based model scheme for all trucks and vans–ie. “RAM ####” and “RAM Van ####”. Dakota would be “RAM 500″ and Sprinters would all become “RAM Vans”. I’d also look at putting the Dakota/500 on a “diet” to make it more “slightly bigger than Ranger and S10 competition” than “slightly smaller than RAM 1500 or F150″–and give it some marketing to lift badly falling sales. Ditch thristy V8 options and instead offer a selection of 4 and 6 cylinder diesel and gas engines (the diesel option for the 2010 Caliber outside N America could be the basis of one choice for example, as well as some Fiat engines and the existing V6 choices).

The days of offering 3, 4 or more “different” cars on the same platform, targeting roughly the same market, are long gone. In this lineup, there would be much less “platform sharing”. Yes, there would be SOME sharing of components and “architectures” but the end results would be much more significant than swaping grilles, wheels and badges. A Chrysler 300 and Dodge Monaco may both be sedans in the same size segment and the same architecture, but I’d take the 300 upscale to truly compete with Mercedes E-class or Cadillac DTS. The models would share NO sheetmetal, trim or interior components. Monaco would carry on Charger-like styling, be given altered suspension and perhaps some different engine/drivetrain options, and pricing would not overlap (most expensive Monaco possible would be a little cheaper than the base 300). This is how the more successful automakers are operating today–Chrysler needs to emulate that strategy.

backinblack2
Oct 28, 2009 at 2:59 pm

Yeah I’m liking it.

Rob Einaudi
Oct 28, 2009 at 1:04 pm

troutster52–you’re probably right, I just keep thinking that BMW doesn’t have any problem moving cars, and with today’s traction control, RWD isn’t too bad in the wet and snow. I’d still want to see AWD versions. I had hopes that Pontiac might start making RWD poor man’s Bimmers, and we know how that worked out…

dodahman
Oct 28, 2009 at 12:52 pm

…and bring back the X1/9!

Chris Borrelli
Oct 28, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Great plan Rob, I think it lays it out perfect.

troutster52
Oct 28, 2009 at 12:30 pm

Rob, I like your plan. I don’t think its likely to come true, however, despite how much I like it.
I would love to see avenger as a RWD car but I just don’t think its feasible. Americans are leery of RWD now, especially in the midwest where there is snow. I love a rear drive and have and will drive one all winter in Iowa or Ohio or anywhere else. It was IMPOSSIBLE to get them (ie Magnum, 300, Charger, Mustang, Crown Vic) off the lot in the winter time when I worked in car rental land. People in most of the US want front wheel drive in everyday driver cars. Toys people will accept in rear drive.
I think Ram for trucks is dumb, but I have always thought GMC was a waste of time too when there is Chevy but they sell trucks. Maybe they know something I don’t.
I think there will always be Grand Caravan and Town&Country as long as there are Moms. Dodge has always been good at minivans, no matter how lame of a segment that is.
I think you’re right about Jeep in that they need to be a viable contender with Subaru. To do that though, they need to get their mileage up! I like the new Liberty redesign, despite the fact I miss the 4.0, but the gas mileage is just unacceptable. I make better mileage in my 2000 F150 5.4 4×4 than any of the Grand Cherokees, Libertys or Commanders could when I worked with rental cars.
I agree Fiat 500 is going to kill here and I think that it will steal a lot of market share from Mini. I can’t wait to see Alfa Romeos here.
What I think Fiat should leverage with Chrysler in the years to come is their diesel design. Diesel is where internal combustion is going and in Europe its everywhere. American Brands don’t really have their own diesels here, they are all just outsourced (ie Duramax, Cummins, Mercedes, etc) so if Chrysler could corner the domestic diesel market, they’d really have something. VW TDIs are killing here because they drive like a regular car and make 40-50 mpg. If Caliber got a diesel, or we see a Fiat or Alfa Romeo in diesel trim here, that would be pretty successful for Chrysler I think.
I don’t have piles of data to back up my claims but thats what I think.